PtoP Ep 16 Thornton Jones edit 1 === Carrie: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Prompt to Page podcast, a partnership between the Jessamine County Public Library and the Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning. I'm your host, librarian and poet, Carrie Green. Each episode we interview a published writer who shares their favorite writing prompt. Our guest today is Marcia Thornton Jones. Marcia Thornton Jones has traditionally published more than 135 books for children with sales totaling more than 43 million copies worldwide. Her works include Woodford Brave, Ratfink, Champ, and Writing Kids Books: The Ultimate Guide. She co-authored seven popular series, including Key Holders and the Adventures of the Bailey School Kids. She is also the co-author of the reimagined graphic novel series, Adventures of the Bailey School Kids, [00:01:00] published by Graphix by Scholastic Inc. Marcia lives in Lexington, Kentucky, where she teaches writing and is the coordinator of Carnegie Center's author services, including the Author Academy, mentoring and manuscript review services. Welcome, Marcia. Thanks for joining us on Prompt to Page. Marcia: I'm happy to be here, Carrie. Prompt to Page is so inspiring and motivating. It gives writers and readers a glimpse into the lives of writers and gives them some really nice immediate tools to try. So I'm excited to be here. Thank you. Carrie: Well, thank you. We love to hear that. And I have to say that I showed my husband your bio and he was so excited that you are a Scholastic author , and we both had memories of the Scholastic book fair. I'm sure a lot of people share those memories. Marcia: Absolutely. If you go through the school system in the United States and, you know, internationally, Scholastic book fairs and book clubs is so [00:02:00] prevalent. Absolutely. Who, who doesn't remember saving their money and going in and looking at the shelves or getting those the little brochures and picking out your books, circling all the ones you want, and then of course, having your parents saying, no, no, no, no, no. You can only have this one Carrie: so I saw a video that you made for the Carnegie Center, and I think it was early in the pandemic about journaling and how it could spark your imagination. And I was also, I was particularly intrigued. You talked about how you used visuals a lot in your journals. I just wondered if you could tell us a little bit about how your journals are part of your writing process. Marcia: Absolutely. Well, I'm a avid journaler and. . However, I have a very complicated history concerning actual writing prompts, but we can talk about that in a little bit. What I have found is that journaling is a creative playground. You know, there was a time where, where I was writing 12 books a [00:03:00] year, so I was very driven and very focused on the writing that needed to be done. At the same time, I needed to push the boundaries of my creativity. So, and I needed to do both at the same time. It's very easy to get trapped into that very linear thinking of, I have to get this page done, or this paragraph or this scene and I have to meet this deadline. And then your creativity kind of gets stifled. So I found that journaling was in a, a great way to really break out of some of the boundaries that I was being forced within which to write. So yes, and I found that visuals were extremely helpful and surprisingly so because I'm not a visual artist. But I found that if I, you know, it makes you think in a different way, uses different parts of your brain, and it made me leave behind that linear thinking and really look in different ways of how I can access my creativity. And [00:04:00] so many times those visuals in my journals did become stepping stones into the writing as well. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . And well you mentioned that you have a complicated relationship with prompts. Do you wanna go ahead and explain that? Marcia: Yeah. If you had asked me anything about prompts years ago, I would've told you I never write from prompts because I was always the one that in workshops and, and classes that would be sitting there tapping my pen while everybody else was, you know, writing away and, you know, scratch scr, you'd hear this scratching of those pens on the paper and there I would be sitting there going I have nothing to write, I have nothing to write. And I, I was always stressed that I was the only one that wouldn't come up with anything good. It felt like someone had taken me out and dumped me into the middle of a deep lake and I would spend so much time splashing around trying to find which way was up. I would be grasping for a life preserver or a direction until I would finally get my arms and legs together and figure out how to swim to shore. And that's how I felt in with these riding [00:05:00] prompts. And then,bing, the timer would go off and I would only have a little bit on my page, or it was a mess when, and then a lot of times post prompts, you know your facilitator might ask if anyone wants to read their prompt, and people would start reading this brilliance, and I would be just devastated. So I thought, no, I don't write from prompts. I, I can't do it that way. But then I had this a-ha realization after being asked where I got ideas for my books, which is often a very popular, um, question when you do school visits and conferences and, and keynotes and things like that, and I started realizing I do write from prompts. In fact, , every writer writes from prompts because something prompted every one of us to sit down and pour words onto the page. It could have been a smell or an aroma that automatically transports us back to a memory, or it could be a snippet of dialogue that we [00:06:00] overhear, or it could be our desire to understand some kind of idea or behavior or character behavior or a big life idea, whatever it was, something compels us to make sense of our world through the art of writing. And those somethings are prompts. So I was like, oh, I do write from prompts. Same thing when I used to tell people I don't write from rough draft I that I write from an outline. And one time somebody asked me, let me see your outline. And it was like 15 pages long and include dialogue and scene descriptions, but it had numbers. I had put first this would happen, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I would, you know, write out everything that would happen. And she laughed and she said, this is a rough draft. You're calling it an outline because you've numbered it, but it's actually a rough draft . So sometimes it takes somebody else looking at what you do and pushing you a little bit. Because we hit walls of our own understanding. . So I realized, okay, I do write from prompts, but I still had a problem with them [00:07:00] because I was not writing confidently. I just could not figure out how to, you know, I just never felt confident in a timed situation, especially amongst others. So I decided to analyze what the root cause of this prompt avoidance was and what I discovered is that many prompts that are in books or presented in classes or workshops were not connected to anything that I really cared about. So that was where they just dumped me in the middle of the lake and said, you know, sink or swim, and I had you know, I had no purpose, no direction, and so I would just splash around a bit. So yeah, the prompts would get words on the page, but they were words that were usually written in isolation from anything else. And they often led me nowhere except till the bing of the timer that would go off. And then I realized that so many of the words on the page were really, disposable words that [00:08:00] and you know, really my, I'm like everybody else. My writing time is precious. So when I have the time to write, I, I would rather be writing either forward or deeper, rather than to write in circles and then end up with something that's either going to be shelved or tossed. So as a teacher, I I heeded feedback from participants who said they wanted prompts. , But I was a little bit unsure because of my complicated past with prompts. So I sit down to work on developing a more purposeful way of developing prompts that I use in my writing classes and retreats. And what I decided was prompts needed to be to address specific craft techniques. So there's that purpose. They have to have a reason, they need to teach. And show us or guide us into a new craft element. But more importantly, I felt that prompts need to connect to our works in progress and to us and to our process. We need to have a connection [00:09:00] to them. So that when you write in a class you, you are connected either in, within your story world or something that you want to learn or discover about yourself. So be it a story or a craft or a, I'm sorry, or a memoir or a poem. I always want my participants to start with where they are and to, to, so that the prompt can connect directly to them. So now mostly with every prompt that I present in my class, I actually have developed a a little bit more of prompt writing than in a lot of classes and workshops that I've done. So first of all, what I do is I actually have them do a pre-prompt prompt. And so it's the same thing for every people in my classes get used to it. But here's the pre-prompt prompt. No matter what you're writing, I want you to figure out, I want you to think about what [00:10:00] is it that you would like to be writing, be it a poem or an essay or a scene in your book, or maybe just you have a story idea that you want to address. So think about something that you want to be working on, so there's that personal connection for your writing. And then I ask them, who's in there? Who, who, who is there in that story or essay or poem, or who is the point of view narrator? Then I ask, where are they? What is the place or the setting? And then what major obstacle or goal does, does the point of view narrator or the character's face? What dilemma do they have? What's the scene's major dramatic question? So what is it? So you have three pieces. You have the who, the where, and the what, . And then based on that, the, the pre-prompt prompt is come up with a one or two sentence anchor using that information. So that's for you, the writer and also for potential readers [00:11:00] to know where you are, who this is about. And so that's how I set up my prompt so that I'm sure that it, they will be connected and they'll get words on the page that are purposeful to that connection. But then I also try to come up with prompts that, that are specific to a craft element, but also general enough that can work in whatever their work is. So I ask them to settle in with that one or two sentence scene anchor, and then I set the timer and I give a prompt that hopefully is designed to a craft element or some other kind. It could also be like dis you know, writing discipline and things, you know, flow, things like that. So craft and technique. And then as with the most other prompts, we write fast and without concern to make it publishable. We, our purpose is to get words on the page, but purposeful words. Rather than writing in circles, I want them to use that scene anchor to push off from and them move forward, or [00:12:00] to move deeper within their work. So that way when they leave the class, or in our session, if they don't have any other time to write that day, or maybe for the rest of the week or maybe till the next time they meet, we meet, they have at least moved forward or more deeply on something that they want to work on, rather than having an isolated piece of writing that's just going to end up on the shelf somewhere. And then I have actually another part to the prompt. Yeah, I have a post-prompt prompt. Carrie: Okay. Marcia: When we finish I notice that a lot of times, you know, I'll invite people to read what they've written and so much. It's amazing what people write in five or 10 minutes, just totally amazing. You know, so many people will have fully fleshed out scenes. Yes, they can be obviously worked and expanded later, but I mean, they really are amazing. But they'd be reading and then they would get lost within their own writing because their writing was so [00:13:00] messy or they skipped things, you know, because during a timed writing, we're writing so fast. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . Marcia: So after the prompt, after we finished our timed writing, I asked them to take a minute or two and just to skim and to tweak it. Not to revise it, but to make any necessary edits. So that, sense making edits, so that later on, let's say tomorrow or even five minutes from now when you're reading your piece you won't be stumbling around because you will have at least maybe filled in some blanks or corrected just a few little things to make sure you make sense. And the last thing I do is I ask them to jot down one or two ideas to themselves, a suggestion for, what would could they write next, should they choose to return to this piece? So that's the post-prompt prompt. So so. . This is from someone who had a very unsure relationship with prompts. Now, I have found that when, by doing this, by making sure we're anchored and connected and that [00:14:00] we write forward or more deeply, rather than writing in circles, we walk away feeling like we have accomplished meaningful words and and sense making on the page that perhaps can actually be used later within our writing. So now my single prompt has turned into three prompts: the pre, the prompt, and the post-prompt prompt. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . Well that's great. And do you, so do you use that pre and post process in your own writing? . Marcia: Absolutely I do. When I sit down to write, I always anchor myself. And of course there are a lot of wonderful ideas on meditation, doing some of the breathing and, and you know, I've read about people who actually have an anchor on their desk, like a, a stone or a certain you know, they light a candle. You have rituals. My ritual is to say, okay, there's my who, there's my where, and there's my, what. This is my goal and [00:15:00] it focuses me in very specifically on this is what I want to write. It doesn't and, and the the other thing is that you, you wanna make sure that you don't limit your writing. But with that anchor, it gives me, just like in that pond, I have my anchor now. , I know where I am, I know which way I need to go. Now how I get there is the creative part and that's where the prompt comes in and then I can let it flow. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . Sarah Combs was on Prompt to Page a few I think this fall. And she also talked about using anchors. For her, the anchor was an object and a feeling, and that was so it was, I think they were, you were kind of using those similarly, just slightly different anchors. . Marcia: Absolutely. And Sarah's a wonderful teacher and mentor for the Carnegie Center. Carrie: Mm-hmm. And I also think that the pre and [00:16:00] post prompts are a great way for writers to you know, I think one of the, one of the reasons that prompts are so good is they help you confront the blank page. But you know, if you're doing that pre and post prompt, you're kind of working on that. already. Marcia: Absolutely. In more than one way, because first of all Carrie: mm-hmm. , Marcia: you know, you, you break you, you. , get over the blank page by writing three simple words. The who, the where, and the what. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . Marcia: And it's like, okay, I can do that. And then it's like, oh, here's, there's the three things. How can I get this into a sentence? Well, I can do that. So you tiptoe into your scene and into your writing, and so you've already conquered the blank page with that. Mm-hmm. . But the other thing is using that post prompt is helpful because then the next day or the next writing session, Carrie: right, Marcia: you like, oh, let's see, what did I say? Oh, I could do this. Or maybe I don't wanna do that anymore. Maybe there's an idea because things [00:17:00] have simmered and you've slept on it or whatever, and you come up with those ideas. But yes, they're absolutely wonderful ways to break. Sometimes I think they're. , they're just as effective as the prompt themselves. Mm-hmm. , I once read one writer's advice was when you're on a roll to stop in the middle of a sentence, and then the next day when you sit down, you know how that sentence is going to end, so then, you know, so it gives you a running start into the writing rather than a cold start. Carrie: Right. And did you want to give an example of some of the actual, the craft- oriented prompts? Marcia: Sure. I can give you, let me give you a couple. Okay. Now, of course, I always tell, I'm gonna say it again. Remember when you, you know, when you try this at home, to anchor yourself with your who, what, and or who, where, and what, who is it? Where are they? and what is their goal or obstacle, because those are three very important [00:18:00] scene elements. So they right there will get you started with a little bit of scene structure. And then so there you have some craft right there. And then as you write to write freely and to push the boundaries and not worry about anything. The point is to get words on the page, but to make them purposeful and to make some connection with them. But last of all, then tweak it and, and empower yourself to write another prompt to move forward the next time you sit down. Because that's the my goal for my prompts are to teach. Yes. To inspire. to make you want to write, to motivate you, to keep going, and then to empower people to write, even when they don't have a timer ticking or somebody saying, here, try this. Here, try that. , Carrie: right. Marcia: You can come up with your own prompts to do that. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . Marcia: So I want to teach, inspire, motivate, and empower you. So here's a prompt for getting a bit of [00:19:00] action into what might be too pa a too passive chunk of writing. And I chose this because that is one of my problems. When I sit down to write, I tend to write deeper rather than to write forward. So I can ha, like right now I have a draft of a novel that's over 50,000 words and really nothing's happening. There's a lot of words on the page and there's a lot of meaning making, but you have to have some forward movement. So this was actually one that I came up with for myself and for some other people in my class when we found that this was a common issue. So once you have your anchors and everything what I ask would ask you to do is to brainstorm a list of dynamic and specific action words. And this can be this is actually the pre-prompt, another pre-prompt to brainstorm a list. You could get outta a dictionary, a thesaurus, open some other books. Look for dynamic, specific, really vibrant [00:20:00] verbs, and make a lengthy list. Then once you have that and you've set your scene anchor, then set your timer and use your scene anchor to launch into a scene in which you use at least three of those dynamic verbs. So that is one of the prompts. . Carrie: Okay. Marcia: And that one was I did that in a class and it was amazing how the, just the use, having that right there in front of you, having that list of really wonderful vocabulary can help us spur our characters into action. So many times our actors or our characters are just static actors on the page, and they seem to, you know, they're our narrator. They're a point of view narrator, and we run the risk of them just being our eyewitness rather than being an active participant. And we have to get them to be an active participant in the scene. So that prompt will help with that. And then the second [00:21:00] prompt is one that is designed to delve deeper into character development while, and also encouraging rhythm in writing. Rhythm in writing is a very good technique to practice to make the writing a little bit more readable. So anyway the prompt is to have your point of view character scan their surroundings. And that's where you get into the rhythm. How are you gonna write about, how are you going to have this character listing specific things in their setting and the immediate environment in a very pleasing, rhythmic way. So have them scan their environment. And oh, this is also a good setting, by the way. Good setting prompt. So have them scan the environment and note specific items until your character sees one particular item that triggers an immediate emotional memory and then compels them to action. So you think about what is the item? Where is it? Is it partially hidden? . [00:22:00] Old, new. Shiny. Dirty. Does your point of view narrator reach for it, caress it, or do they run from it? Or maybe they check its heft for a possible weapon. . What do they do with that item? So those are my two prompts that I would like to, I hope everybody tries those prompts. sees where it takes them either forward or deeper within their current work in progress. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, those are great. And I, I could see them working not just for people writing fiction and thinking about characters, but you know, in poetry we use word banks a lot. And, and I like that idea of, you know, specific words like verbs. I mean, that's certainly something you could use in any kind of writing. And it's great that you're, that you're thinking about and teaching people about rhythm as well, because that's so important even in non, um, [00:23:00] non poetry. Marcia: Oh, absolutely. And in fact, that second prompt with the rhythm, whenever I do it, it always comes out as a poem. Because I see it on the page with, you know, how could I break up, you know, the, the, the, the itemization of the scene of the scene. How could I break it up? And it ends up into a poem. Mm-hmm. , and then later I rewrite it as prose. Carrie: Mm-hmm. . . Marcia: In fact, that's another prompt, which is so much fun that I ask people to take a paragraph of something that they've really e either something they've written and it really works with your writing as well. Mm-hmm. , let's just stick with what you're writing. Take a paragraph that either you love or that's really stagnant. Mm-hmm. , and then rewrite that paragraph as a poem. . Carrie: Oh yeah. Marcia: So that you get to the essence of it and you, mm-hmm. , you start to see the inner rhythm of it and the structure of it. So rewrite it as a poem, and if it's something you really love, then notice how the rhythm that you have [00:24:00] included within that paragraph and what makes it so strong. But if it's a stagnant paragraph, then you can say, well, how could I make this more rhythmic? And so it flows better. And then you can rewrite that as prose. And a lot of times you can just put it back together as a, it's a paragraph just as you've written it. Just you rework the structure. Carrie: Yeah. That's great. So you, just using a different form to revise the, the paragraph. And so many people are afraid of writing poetry too. And so that's a great way of getting people to try it. Marcia: I am the first person to say that poetry and poets scare me. I am so in awe of poets and poetry. So, but it is so important. Carrie: Mm. , do you have any final writing tips you'd like to give our listeners? Marcia: Sure. I would be glad to. The first, of course is to read, and I know a lot of people on your Prompt to Page [00:25:00] have talked about the importance of reading, and it's important to read just for enjoyment, but also to absorb the structure and the rhythm again, of writing. And, and read outside your comfort levels because writing good, writing is good writing. So of course read a lot and try to absorb the flow and the structure of the types of writing you want to do. The other thing is to connect to your writing. If it's something you're, you know, try to find something even, you know, like I said, I write oftentimes under contract so it can sometimes feel like I may not have the opportunity to be connected to it, but I always find a connection within the story with the characters with, with something within the story. So always find something to connect yourself with. And speaking of connections, I would encourage writers to connect with other writers. It's hard to grow and to progress and to strengthen your writing in a vacuum because so many of [00:26:00] us don't know what we don't know, and we can, we, we write until we hit a wall or a barrier and we don't even know that wall or barrier is there. So by strengthening your connection to other writers, you also open up opportunities to learn and to grow. So join a writing group or join, join communities like the wonderful Lexington Writers Room here in Lexington, Kentucky. Follow podcasts like this one. Mm-hmm. , because it's so inspiring to first of all get the prompts and to try them on the page within your own writing, but also to get a glimpse into how other writers write and to pick up these little tidbits. That's what listening to Prompt to Page is so wonderful because writers are not only talking about the prompts, but they're talking about their process and everybody's process is unique, but sometimes we can learn or we can try something or we hear something that triggers something for our own process. Another thing I would suggest is to invest in your [00:27:00] craft and to take it seriously. I was just reading some things a blog about the unfortunate situation where so many self-published books are just not ready to be published, but they're throw people are throwing it out there and then they get bad reviews and, and things like that. And the unfortunate thing is that's that thing where we don't know what we don't know. When we, we, we are all on a continuum of learning and everybody is. Sometimes when we move forward, sometimes we need to slip a little bit backwards and we need to learn new things. And, and I just wish that so many writers who think that their first blush with writing is wonderful. It is. But we always have room to grow. We are always learning because we're all on that continuum of learning. So invest in your craft. I know it's hard to do. Not, we don't all, we don't have a lot of disposable funds. But it's very important, just like with any other [00:28:00] skill or profession you go into. Usually there is some investment in learning, so you might want to check out like the Carnegie Center's Author Academy, which is a nine month intensive one-on-one program, which by the way, the registration is now open for the 2023. 2024 year we're just getting into 2023. It's hard to get used to saying 23, and here I'm talking about 2024 as well. But it starts in September and the application window just opened. But also look at like, things like our mentoring, the Carnegie Center's mentoring services where you can, you know, just chat with a, a professional writer and learn and, and ask questions. And of course, take classes. The Carnegie center has so many wonderful and affordable classes and workshops and some things are free. Mm-hmm. . So take a look at Carnegie Center's opportunities for writers that so that you can grow and develop your skills. . And then the another thing is I would like to ask [00:29:00] people to ask writers and to encourage writers to be open to critique. Mm-hmm. to, to understand the process of critique. And that critique is, is intended to help us to grow and to learn and develop, and to break through those walls and barriers that are keeping us from really writing the wonderful works that we know we can write, but maybe aren't quite ready for it. I, I hear so many writers during critique sessions and workshops where they after getting some feedback, they start to defend and try to explain what they're writing. And I don't blame you. I do that same thing. You know, we've written it, we know what we wanted to write and what it was supposed to mean and the brilliance behind it. But you know, it's, it's very difficult sometimes to accept that kind of feedback. And to know what to do with it. So I think it's very important. And that goes along with classes and workshops and, and, you know, mentoring and, and investing in your craft and, and in [00:30:00] your desire to not only write, but become, but to become the writer you, you could be if you just open yourself to some of that. And one of the things I'd like to mention in that is that the Carnegie Center actually has a free class called Writing Workshop Basics by Ashley Blooms, and it's free. Mm-hmm. . And it talks about what to expect. So if it, you know, and, and how to give as well as to receive mm-hmm. the kinds of feedback that will, will help you to grow and develop. And then finally, my last piece of advice after saying all of that , is yes, do set goals. Take your writing seriously. Invest in your writing. But also be kind to yourself. Avoid comparing your ideas and your words or your process to other people. Avoid, please avoid relying on publishing to validate the power of your words. The market is [00:31:00] fickle, but writer's worth and the worth of their words are not. They are always valuable, always powerful, no matter how wide or how small your reading audience happens to be. So be kind to yourself and just be inspired to sit down, look at the page, anchor yourself, and then to start writing your truth on the page. . Carrie: That's great. Thank you so much, Marcia. There's all kinds of great advice and I, I'm sure our listeners will be motivated, inspired, and empowered by listening to this episode. Marcia: Thank you so much. I do too, and I look forward to hearing more writers chatting with you on Prompt to Page. Thank you for the work that you're doing. This is a fabulous op opportunity for all of us, and I look forward to seeing some of the listeners at the Carnegie Center. Carrie: Absolutely. Thank you. Marcia: Thank [00:32:00] you. Carrie: Thank you for listening to Prompt to Page. To learn more about the Jessamine County Public Library, visit jesspublib.org. Find the Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning online at carnegiecenterlex.org. Our music is by Archipelago, an all instrumental musical collaboration between three Lexington based university professors. Find out more about Archipelago: Songs from Quarantine volumes one and two, at the links on our podcast website.