PtoP Ep 24 Arnold
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Carrie: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Prompt to Page podcast, a partnership between the Jessamine County Public Library and the Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning. I'm your host, librarian and poet, Carrie Green. Each episode we interview a published writer who shares their favorite writing prompt. Our guest today is David Arnold.

David is the New York Times bestselling author of Mosquito Land, I've Loved You in another Life, the Electric Kingdom Kids of Appetite, and the Strange Fascinations of Noah Hypnotic. He has won the Southern Book Prize and the Great Lakes Book Award and was named a Publisher's Weekly Flying Start for his debut.

His books have been translated into over a dozen languages. He lives in Lexington, Kentucky with his wife and son. Learn more at davidarnoldbooks.com and follow him on Instagram @iamdavidarnold. Welcome, David. Thanks for joining us. 

David: Thanks so much for having me, Carrie. 

Carrie: I know you have a [00:01:00] background in music and you still make music as neon imposter, is that 

David: Yeah, that's right.

Carrie: Okay.

David: It's, it's, I'm, I'm a little hesitant to say I still make music because so much of the music I've been releasing recently has been re-released stuff, like stuff that I recorded years ago that I'm, mm-hmm. It was before the age of streaming, so I'm able to kind of re-release. On streaming platforms.

But yes, I am also writing a few new songs to go with my, with my new book. 

Carrie: Well, I was gonna ask you, how does music play a role in your novel writing process, and can you talk a little bit about that? 

David: Yeah, for sure it does. I mean, so we actually talked very briefly about Elliot Smith and it's weird that we did because he, I often credit him with teaching me than an honest voice as more compelling than a pretty one.

'cause I think you can debate all day, whether he technically could sing, but you can't debate the vulnerability in his voice. And the way that he sang was it kind of made you lean in. And, that really taught me something long before I ever wrote [00:02:00] novels. Mm-hmm. So music has always played a really important role in writing for me.

This is my first, so I have a book coming out in October called I Loved You in Another Life, where the two main characters, they're strangers. Their lives are sort of falling apart, but they start to hear music out of thin air, um, very specific songs. And they're both hearing the same songs, although they don't know it yet 'cause they don't know each other yet.

But these songs kind of lead them to each other. And I kind of thought early on, like, this would be a really good opportunity for me to kind of join my two, like life pursuits. And it challenged me to, you know, 'cause when I transitioned from writing music to writing books, I really just kind of dropped, dropped music altogether.

I'm very much like a, I get, I get focused on one thing and I want to do that thing really well. And so I've never been the kind of person who's like, just has a million things going on. Mm-hmm. And so it was very easy for me, maybe kind of frighteningly easy for me to just ditch music altogether and focuse on writing, on writing novels.

And I did that for about 10 years. [00:03:00] And so this book was kind of a challenge for me to revisit that past life appropriately and it's been really great. I have a friend in town here who has a studio, and so I've been able to record the songs at his place and he was an old band mate of mine during my music days.

And yeah, so I, I've been able to kind of craft the songs as I'm crafting the book, and, and in that way it's, I, you know, there's, it's really impossible to say which came first because mm-hmm. I'm writing them kind of simultaneously, so I'll change a line in the song and that'll affect the book, or I'll

have a new kind of plot line or a character development, and I'll have to go change a line in the song. So they kind of have happened organically in that way. 

Carrie: Just out of curiosity, will the print book have some sort of access to the music that you've

David: I'm, I'm glad you asked.

Yes, we are, we've been working on a QR code, although with my publisher, that's been kind of a weird, and just because it is a book, it's a book for teens, there's a lot of privacy issues involved with that. Mm-hmm. So, actually, it's funny, I can't remember where we [00:04:00] landed. Regardless, I'm going to be releasing all three songs on an ep, um, everywhere.

Mm-hmm. The music streams or downloads, and there will be either a link or a QR code or something in the book, like letting you know where to go find those songs. 

Carrie: Mm-hmm. And I know you, you said that it happened organically. Did, did the voice of the character happen first or the, the songs or, you know, how did that.

David: Yeah, if you want to, if you're wondering which came first, like actually where did it start? It was the book and it was, I had for a long time, well, there were a couple of things, a couple of boxes that I've never checked. I've never written a true love story and I wanted to do that. I, I had never really written my music into my books and I wanted to do that.

But lastly, and this was the first thing that came. I really, you know, my son who's 11 now. When he was seven, he was obsessed with the movie, ET like, we watched it, we watched it every Tuesday for like six months. And I, you know, we also, we've always had a very special [00:05:00] relationship and I, I really wanted to figure out a way to write that into a book.

And so the first thing that came was, a big brother. The main character in the book, his name's Evan, and he has a little brother named Will, who's kind of misunderstood. And the voice of that, of Evan kind of came to me very quickly and very easily. I. It really was a good entry point for me to kind of get into the, to the novel.

'cause writing, writing novels are, it's a really hard thing to do and, and if you can have an entry point, if you can find an, an easier, it's not an easy, but like an easier entry point, it makes it less scary to kind of get into the world. And so, Evan's voice came very quickly to me, and in large part because of his relationship with his little brother, which is based on my relationship with my son.

Carrie: So what about writing prompts? Do they have a role in your writing process? And if so, how? 

David: Yeah, I love that this kind of came along because, okay, so I was a terrible student. Um, I was just a really bad student. I didn't, it wasn't until my, [00:06:00] it was my senior year, my final semester, I made Dean's list, which I'm not, that, I'm not saying that to brag.

I'm saying that to say like, it literally took me, How many years is that? 12 plus four. Yeah. I can't even do that math. So like, it took me 16 years to finally learn how to study and at the very end I like figured out how to do it and do it well. But it, I was just really bad. I didn't care that much. I was really into music and so to me it was like, let's just get through this so I can go do the thing that I want to do.

I bring all that up to say that for the longest time the idea of a prompt felt like homework. Mm-hmm. Which is, you know, it can be kind of, Kind of jarring for someone like me who, who didn't enjoy school. But I, I mean, as I've gotten older and as I've done this more, I've tried to, kind of, I've tried to embrace

the, the ways that my craft needs honing. So I think that for the longest time, I would've said, and I still in a lot of ways do say I think about it, kind of like a fragile bird in the hand. And then if I try to investigate it too [00:07:00] closely, it's gonna fly off, you know? Mm-hmm. And that, to some extent that's true, but it also is a little bit of an excuse to like not do work.

Um, and I, I can recognize that that is true. And so, I think what being on this podcast has actually kind of prompted me to, um, kind of look closer at some of my habits and recognize that, oh, actually, I'm not calling those prompts, but that's exactly what they are.

And so I have a few different ones that I could talk about. I walk regularly and I listen to, there's a podcast of these monks in the French countryside and they release these episodes of them chanting every day. And I find that walking in my neighborhood while listening to these French

monks is so calming and like feeling very small in the world. And so that's certainly something that I do, among other things, but mm-hmm. The, the prompt that I would encourage your listeners, to do is to be more intentional about what they're reading. So to think how does what I like, align with what I make. And that's [00:08:00] not to say that what you're, what you're writing has to be, you know, it has to resemble what you're reading. But if, if there are like common things in books that you're reading that you find, that you really, that are really resonating with you, you know, don't just be like, oh, that's nice, and then move on.

Like, investigate why that is and then implement that into your own work. I realized this is, this is a little off topic. When I was in college, I was in a band that I really believed in for a really long time, but near the end of it, we kind of gathered around and as a band, we realized we don't listen to the kind of music we're making anymore.

Why are we making this music? And so I, it's really about intentionality. And so I actually brought three books. And by the way, I, I don't mean plagiarism, like, I'm not saying copy things from the books that you love. But recognizing like stylistic things and, and tone things. And like if you read a passage and you're like, man, I really love that.

Well take a second. And like, what is it about that passage that you love and is it [00:09:00] something that I can apply in my own work? So I brought three examples if you would like.

Carrie: Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Sounds great.

David: I won't read through them, but I can kind of tell you what it is about each passage that, that really resonated with me.

Carrie: Okay. 

David: So the first book is Special Topics in Calamity Physics by Marisha Pessl. This is one of my all time favorite novels. It is just so inventive. The characters are totally alive and the writing is just fantastic, and kind of like fearless in a way that I kind of aspire to be. But, there's a chapter opening and she does this in a lot of the chapters where I was like reading it.

I was like, what is it about this that I love so much? And the first sentence in this chapter just says, we traveled. Period. It's two words and then there's a whole paragraph that goes on and on and on that's a run-on sentence. And in addition to the writing and the characters that I, you know, that I obviously was very into, but it was also a revelation for me that like the musicality of that, that the juxtaposition of like a [00:10:00] tiny sentence right next to a really long sentence was

mm-hmm. Something that I recognized that's not just something I love in this book. That's something I love in books. And so then being more intentional about, focusing on musicality and my own writing. Mm-hmm. And, what, like, the sentence placements and, and kind of like, how am I, how am I divvying up my sentences in a way that has like a rhythm and a flow?

Mm-hmm. Which as a poet, I'm sure you think about constantly, right? Because it's like mm-hmm. The, the rhythm of, of the words is so important. And so just as a writer myself, like recognizing that's something that I love in books that I read. Well, why am I not focusing on that in the books that I write?

Mm-hmm. And so, yeah. Then the next one is actually kind of, the flip side of that is a book called Northern Spy by Flynn Berry. I'm holding them up to the camera, like we're on a TV show. Yeah. Um, 

Carrie: well, thank you. I am benefiting from seeing the books. 

David: Yeah, right, right. Look at this book. You should read it Carrie.

I was blown away by this book for so many reasons, but one of them is [00:11:00] there is a certain like. It has this, it's like, it's quiet in a way that has so much confidence. Like she doesn't need to like, show off in any way. And I, I also aspire to that 'cause I feel so much like I am, I'm always trying to, you know, do my best and like really, like impress on every sentence.

And it's like sometimes you can just kind of quietly tell the story. Okay, so in this, in this sentence she's talking about, she has found herself, really without a choice to spy. And, and she's a, she's a young mom. She has a young, a young child and her, her whole world is sort of upside down, but she describes this moment where she's getting into bed with her child and

You know, and the kid is still kind of, kind of like a toddler, and she tucks, she tucks him in and kind of like gets him safe, and then she lays down next to him. The final sentence, after she's kind of gone through all of this harrowing stuff, the final sentence is, "In the night he sometimes flings a small, warm hand against my [00:12:00] face." And like it just ends there.

She doesn't go on to say, what does that make her feel? Or like, what is she thinking when she does it? It's enough that she describes the action without kind of getting into the emotional interiority. Mm-hmm. And she's done the work throughout the book so that when when she reads that line, we get it.

We don't, we don't need her to spell out the rest of it for us. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I really love that. And so ending with an action, ending a, a paragraph or ending a sentence or, a chapter with a small action and letting that be the end without diving into what does this action make the character feel, is something that I've also tried to kind of implement in my own writing because I just find it very effective.

Right. And then the last one is a book called The Memoirs of Stockholm Sven, which is written by, and I read the book first and then we have since become kind of friends, which I've, it's just been such a delight to be able to like, pick the brain of the person who wrote the book you love, you know?

Mm-hmm. But Nathaniel Ian Miller is the author, and [00:13:00] this book does so many things really well. But one of the things that I loved is that it's, it's got a very bleak setting. The main character is oftentimes also bleak, but he's surrounded by this cast of like, really surprising friendships. He meets these new people at these new times and you kind of think, oh, this isn't gonna go well.

And then, Like three hours later they're drinking buddies and they're, and they're helping each other's, you know, just enrich each other's lives. And, so that sort of ensemble cast of characters that really kind of, brings these characters out of their darkness in a surprising way is something that I am actually working on right now in, in my own book, is trying to like, figure out what is it, what is it about this that I love and how can I, how can I apply it in my own writing?

Carrie: Right. Many of the guests that we've had on have talked about the importance of reading, but I think that is really helpful because it gives some concrete examples of, of what you're thinking about and how you're trying to apply it. And [00:14:00] I, and I think I've read that, I mean, your work has gotten a little more speculative and, and things as you've, as you've continued to write.

And that was influenced by what you were reading, is that 

David: Yeah, for sure. It, it was, and I also like. So like in what year did the movie come? Like 2015? I saw the movie Arrival and I was like, I have to, I have to. And that led to me reading Ted Chiang, which is the source material for that movie. And yeah, I guess it is also like I, I am the kind of person who, once I've done something, I feel like I've done it and it's kind of time to find the next thing to do.

Mm-hmm. And so it is, it is often going to be influenced by what you're writing or rather by what you're reading. And I, I certainly was reading more speculative, but I also think that it's kind of like my first two books were just sort of contemporary, realistic fiction, which by the way, I'm, I'm writing again right now, like in my work in progress, so it's not like I'm done with it forever.

Mm-hmm. But, I do, [00:15:00] you know, I, I find myself kind of. Once I've done that, I'm feeling like, okay, what's the next thing you know? Mm-hmm. And then my fourth book was a, a post-apocalyptic, kind of mind bendy thing, and which was very different from what I'd done before. So, yeah. I guess my hope is that there, the through line is just that it, it, there's a, there's some kind of tone or voice or something that feels like a book that I've written.

Mm-hmm. But I'm, I'm 100% behind trying to like really try new things and my favorite authors all do that, so like why wouldn't I, you know? Right. And, and I guess also like with the reading, 'cause you're right, like almost every writer would be like, read, read everything you can and Yes, absolutely. And I wanna be careful not to say that like it should be thought of.

I mean, I know I already said that I wasn't a great student and so like far be it for me to make it seem like reading is homework or like, you should be doing all this work while you're reading 'cause. I think the most important thing about reading a lot is just, is just letting yourself become a sponge and [00:16:00] soak in the words, and soak in the pacing, and soak in the stories.

And then when it's time to write, you know, you've already got all of that in you. You don't have to really worry about the mechanics of it. But it is sort of like occasionally let's look at the mechanics of it and what is it about this sentence or this paragraph or this book that I'm loving so much and

is there something there that I can intentionally be like, I love that. Let me see if I can, if I can apply that in my own writing. 

Carrie: Right. Do you have any other writing advice that you'd like to give to our listeners? 

David: Oh, writing advice? 

Carrie: Yeah. Or tips or whatever. 

David: Yeah. I mean, it's another sort of, very common, a pretty common thing that writers will say, but you know, I, so I end up talking with a lot of young writers and one of the questions that I'm often asked is, how do you finish, like, so many writers will have an idea and they'll start it and they're like, ah, I can't do this. And really what I [00:17:00] feel like nine times out of 10, what that says to me is that, you know, if you're trying to write a book, then presumably you're a good reader and, and you've read a lot of books, and so you know what good writing looks like when you see it.

And so if you're writing a thing and you look at it and you're like, this isn't good. Why would I finish this? Right? So maybe you don't know, that's why you're quitting, but it's a quit when you're looking at it and you're like, I don't think this is very good, or I'm not good enough. And in reality, the thing that you, the books that you read and love and the songs that you listen to and love, or the paintings that you look at and love all sucked

at some point, they all, at some point in their creation, I won't say all, but most of them, I have to think at some point in their creation, weren't very good. And then it was just that the creator didn't stop and. The creator didn't stop. So it was, it was sort of like just putting your head down and getting through.

You know, I suck at middles. I hate middles of books. I usually know where I'm going at the end, and I love openings. I'm really good at opening a book, but middles are really hard and I think that's because once you get [00:18:00] into it, it's like, okay, I had this great idea and I know where I'm going, but getting there is the hard part.

And so it is just kind of like, It's giving yourself permission to suck because it's going to suck, and you kind of have to get through that before it, before it doesn't. 

Carrie: Mm-hmm. I guess one final question because you do, all of your books so far have been for teens. Do you have any specific advice for people who are interested in writing for teens?

David: So, I love this question because I'm really good friends with another YA author named Jeff Zentner and the two of us have exact opposite answers to this. Jeff, he got into writing Ya because he wanted to create art for teens and his story is wonderful. I'm not gonna try to tell it on this show, but, it was a very intentional thing for him to do and, and that's, I love that story.

And, my story is the exact opposite, which is that I didn't give a second thought who my audience was going to be. It really was just telling, telling the most honest story, not [00:19:00] for whatever reason, you know, the story, like the way I got there and it was a long path, but the way I got there was I wrote a few picture books.

I was like, oh, this isn't it. Like I'm not good at this. And I was trying my hand at some middle grade stuff and then it really, it was when my, my wife and I found out we were gonna have a baby is is when I was like, okay, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna do this, I have to like really be mindful of like, what is my path?

Where, where is my voice most? Like what's my most natural voice? Mm-hmm. And that was really when I was like, okay, I'm gonna tell this story and I didn't think I'm gonna write a YA novel. It was just, I have this, I have this idea for a character. Now go. And two years later I had a book and an agent who was like, you know, I think we can, I think we can sell this.

And then it did, and then it was, yeah, it's been kind of, one Ya book after the next, which I've been. So honored and I, my publisher's been great to just sort of say, like, tell your stories, you know, and and these have certainly been, my most natural stories, but I don't, yeah. As far as like [00:20:00] advice for people who want to write for teens, I'm not the best person to ask because that was never a specific goal of mine.

Mm-hmm. Even though I love that I do it, if that makes any sense. 

Carrie: Well, I mean, yeah, it does. And, and of course there are lots of adults who read books for teens, you know, it's sometimes it's kind of like a marketing right thing rather than, you know, just a focus on people. Yeah. Or, or whatever. 

David: Yeah. It is wonderful.

Like nobody loves a book, like a teen who loves a book. Mm-hmm. And so in that respect, I feel so lucky to have sort of accidentally stumbled into this. And so the flip side of that is a, is always a little frustration when, someone is like, oh, this looks great for my, for my, you know, my nephew or my niece.

Mm-hmm. So I'm like, Yes, absolutely. But like also it could be great for you, right? Like there's this sort of, this automatic write off that it's not for me. And, and I mean, I would say the [00:21:00] same if I were writing picture books. I feel like, I feel like adults should read picture books. They're, they're mm-hmm.

Poetry on the page and it's, you know, art and, so I don't, I don't like this idea of like prescribing a certain book for a certain age. 

Carrie: Right. 

David: Just across the board. I feel like it's, not helpful. 

Carrie: Yeah. I. No. As a librarian, I, I agree with that as well. 

David: Okay, good. I, I feel vindicated. 

Carrie: Well, thank you so much David, for joining us.

We really enjoyed it, or I really enjoyed it. 

David: Yeah, this was great. Thank you so much for having me, Carrie.

Carrie: Thank you for listening to Prompt to Page. To learn more about the Jessamine County Public Library visit jesspublib.org. Find the Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning at carnegiecenterlex.org. Our music is by Archipelago, an all instrumental musical collaboration between [00:22:00] three Lexington based university professors.

Find out more about Archipelago Songs from Quarantine Volumes One and Two at the links on our podcast website.