PtoP Kilcoyne2auph === Carrie: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Prompt to Page podcast, a partnership between the Jessamine County Public Library and the Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning. I'm your host, librarian and poet Carrie Green. Each episode we interview a published writer who shares their favorite writing prompt. Our guest today is Elizabeth Kilcoyne. Elizabeth is an author, playwright, and poet, born and raised in Kentucky. Her first novel, Wake The Bones, a YA Southern Gothic from Wednesday Books is a finalist for the William C. Morris debut award and received a starred review from both Publishers Weekly and Kirkus, who described her as, " a new standard bearer in YA horror." She currently lives in Lexington, Kentucky, where she gardens serves on the organizational team for a local community vegetable market and teaches writing. Welcome, Elizabeth. Thanks for joining us. Elizabeth: Hi. Thanks [00:01:00] so much for having me. Carrie: So I know that you're teaching a class for the Carnegie Center in August. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about that? Elizabeth: Yeah. So I'm teaching a class on setting as character and basically the concept behind that is that setting is not just sort of a neutral playing ground on which you move your characters around and they act, but that setting has its own influence on the plot and it also sometimes can have its own investment and its stakes and its own way of existing. And we're gonna do a lot of interesting ways of discovering sort of not just what your setting is, but who your setting is. So I'm really excited. Carrie: Yeah, I know for southern Gothic, which is, which your novel is the setting is really important for that. Elizabeth: Oh, absolutely. I feel like in all gothics, you know, I mean, the, the shorthand for gothic is a lot of times, you know, like the, the house is alive, right? Or the setting is alive. And particularly in Wake the Bones writing about a farm in which so many things, or life and [00:02:00] death is so, present and so upfront, mm-hmm. The land in Wake the Bones has its own say and its own opinions and its own stakes, and it's a lot tied in with the magical system. Mm-hmm. So it was really fun to explore that and come to, to realizations about that as writing the story. Carrie: And do you think that that setting kind of serves as a prompt for your writing or? Elizabeth: Absolutely. So the, I was thinking a lot about prompts in, in preparation for this and the actual prompting that I used most to write Wake the Bones was a walk that I did. In, you know, late June, early July, it's coming up. I always think of it as Wake the Bones season about like late, late June, mm-hmm. That I did through my family's farm where I just took note of every living thing that I could see. Mm-hmm. I, you know, I, I walked slowly, I thought for a long time. I brought my little notebook with me and I made a huge list. And that list of every plant, every animal, every, [00:03:00] you know, thing that I noticed was the, the sort of. I feel like very much the foundation of Wake the Bones. There had been some, you know, thematic exploration of grief before then for me. And there had been this, this real interest in this old Appalachian haint tail called Raw Head and Bloody Bones. Mm-hmm. And I wanted to put them all together, but I don't think that I could have glued that popsicle stick castle together if it hadn't been for the, the solid foundation of just knowing that land and exploring where I was from. Carrie: Right. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds like a great writing prompt so what role have prompts played in your writing process? Elizabeth: It's a complicated one. I, I have had a lot of sort of writing education since I was very young and as a teenager and early twenties sort of writer, I really rebelled against prompts. I think I'd had too many for a while mm-hmm. That I couldn't figure out how to use. And so there for a [00:04:00] while, especially like in my, like starting out teaching, I was like, oh, I'm anti prompt. Mm-hmm. And I no longer feel that way at all. I, I do still struggle with like the very, like, you know, the sort of grab bag. You reach into a grab bag and you pull out a random plot and then you do something like that. That's never worked for me. And it, it never really will, I don't think. But I do use prompts and I think as you grow as an author, and particularly if you're interested in a professional career as an author, and you have to generate ideas fairly quickly, prompts are a saving grace. And I think that they, they serve a huge purpose for me, especially in, in drafting and the sticky bits of literature. You know, like when you're mm-hmm. That, that part of your manuscript that you keep wanting to turn away from and keep wanting to turn away from and keep ignoring. I feel like writing prompts when they're the sort of writing prompts that serve me and serve my, my thought process. I feel like they are always the, the sort of saving grace that I go to to, to [00:05:00] move into the next phase of a draft. Mm-hmm. You raised a Carrie: good point though, that. Not every prompt is going to work for everyone. Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. And I've seen, it's so interesting, I have seen some of the coolest works come from, like I said, the sort of grab bag of, of traditional prompts where you reach and you pull, you know, I've seen some really just very creative and incredible minds who create like super funny or super intense sort of just like writing exercise. Things that they just pull off the drop of the hat. I've never been able to do that, but I, I really envy people who can. For me, I'm more. I kind of create a compost for myself. Mm-hmm. When I'm in the process of a project I dunno how else to describe it. Compost was the word that sort of came, came up when I was thinking about this. I like to lay a foundation of a lot of different stuff and let it all percolate and rot and come into this fruition of a story. Lists are a huge part, like I mentioned. For that I had a list of, yeah, the, the list that I made during my [00:06:00] walk. And I had a list. I have this list that I've kept, I think honestly, since I was maybe 15 or so. Just of. Images that are important to me, like thematic images throughout my work and my life. It was particularly pertinent when I was a poet. I would just reach for one specific image and then craft a poem around it. But I found that it's really useful in long form fiction as well to have sort of like these, these holy images that you sort of returned to, and there were a lot of them that made it into Wake the Bones. And there are a lot of them that have made it into to subsequent works for me. And that, that list has gone on for, I have old, old lists. Mm-hmm. That just keep going and keep going. Another thing that's really important to me is, and I've, I've gotten out of the habit of doing this. I used to do it a lot before covid. It's just carrying around a notebook. And a lot of, a lot of writers that I know, a lot of poets that I know you know, the notebook you go to a reading and you've got half of these people with these Moleskines in their laps and they're taking notes. [00:07:00] And that was something that I learned at a very early age from a, from a lot of those poets. And just anytime you hear anything in a snippet of conversation in somebody else's work, you know, you attribute it and you just, you write it down. Any thought, do you have any idea, any passing sort of like, oh, if I don't get this down, I'll forget it. You know, it just goes right into the notebook and you have this sort of like snippet book of like images and then if there's an image that you love and that you keep coming back to it Especially if it's in like a longer work. This is something that I do a lot with fiction. I'll also copy down whole passages and attribute them of course, and they never make it directly into my novels like that. But if I'm really thinking about an aspect of craft that's difficult for me if I'm thinking about, you know if I'm thinking about setting, if I'm thinking about care, about plot and, and having difficulty if I've written down a couple of times a passage that I think evokes that particular element of craft really well, then I can, you know, go away from that and think about. How I can bring that into my [00:08:00] own work. Like what I can do to be more like this thing that I think is, is, is good and correct. So that's, yeah, some of my, my elements there. And then I also really like to create, and this is more of a visual prompt but I'm a very visual person. I've got the big Pinterest boards, the big moody Pinterest boards with, you know, hundreds and hundreds of. And I, I based them character based actually. I'll have one for the setting cuz I, I like, like I said, I, I do think that setting is a character in and of itself a lot of times, but I then create sort of like subsections for each project by character. And I, I pull images that I think really speak to those characters. So that's my, my compost. Carrie: Yeah. I have done the Pinterest boards myself too. And it is, for me, it has been like a really fun excuse to look at. Like fashion women's fashions from the thirties and Elizabeth: Oh yeah. Carrie: Beach pajamas, which Elizabeth: you [00:09:00] can go down some incredible rabbit holes with that. Yes. I currently, I mean, I'm a horror author and this is sort of how you do it. And I use my personal Pinterest as my author, Pinterest as well. Mm-hmm. So my, my current sort of, For you page of Pinterest is like a bunch of different pictures of blood splatter and then like toddler cooking recipes. Here's how to paint rocks for your garden. Carrie: Well, I mean it, that does make sense. You need a lot of different elements for a compost. Elizabeth: I think there's a story in that juxtaposition of, toddler recipes and blood splatter. Carrie: Definitely. There's another, there's another prompt for you there. So do you have a prompt idea for our listeners? Elizabeth: What, yeah. I was thinking a lot about sort of again, the process of writing Wake the Bones and how I created things. I, I was thinking about [00:10:00] my stuck points and I was thinking about my themes and for me the stuck point for Wake the Bones was being brave enough to go deep into grief cuz it was a pretty raw book. I was writing it at a point in life where I'd had family members and friends who had died. And I was, I was really coming to face grief and death as an adult for the first time. And I was thinking about like what I needed and I, none of the characters in Wake the Bones got to be proper self-insert characters, but I gave them a lot of things that I had or things that I wanted, things that I needed. Mm-hmm. And so the prompt that I created for your all's listeners was basically to start with yourself and think about something that you really need. Like I was really sort of chewing the cud of thinking of, and this is a little bit more, it's a morbid book, you know, it's, it's a morbid book and I'm a morbid person. But at this [00:11:00] time in my life, I just kept thinking about like the moment of death and what that was like for the people who I had lost and mm-hmm. How frustrating it is that, like, the most unrelatable point in the life of a person who you can, you know, in that person's life at that point is something where you can, you can never ask them about it. You can never have that conversation. And I was thinking a lot about that moment of death. And it, it came up that you know, I, I really wanted to, I wanted to know and I, you know, we don't have the ability in this life to know what the moment of death looks like before we arrive at it, for the most part. And so I, you know, when writing fantasy, I turned to Laurel's strange ability where sh if she touches something's bones, she can feel the moment that it died. And I, as I developed that sort of little gift that I gave her gift question marks the moment she feels complicatedly about it. But it, it was. Helpful that she was able to [00:12:00] only feel it when she was holding their, their bones because, you know, that means that grief isn't an initial shock necessarily. That means I spent some decomposition. That means some time has passed. And death is not immediate. So she's in the grieving process and then she gets this sort of ability to, to feel and to know. Mm-hmm. So my prompt for your readers, that was a little long-winded way of saying give your character something that you need. Something that you can't have, a problem that you can't fix. Go as deep as you're able, and I think you'll find an interesting theme. And then give them, and you can make a list. I would recommend making a list because your first instinct is maybe not always your best one. I think listing helps you to get to the point of where you need to be, but list the different ways that they could solve that problem. And it can be, as immediate as, you know, if it's a very realistic thing, oh, they find a really good therapist. You know, cause that's about the only way that you [00:13:00] can fix that particular problem in real life. But in the, the realm of fantasy, is there some magical power that they could have? Is there some artifact that they can wield? Is there another person who could solve this for them? You know, if it's, if you're writing a romantic story and your, your heroine is, is very like, lonely and is really missing out on some, you know, maybe she's, she's very work oriented. She's very like straight lace. She's very sort of nose to the grindstone, giving her some delightful manic pixie part, you know, something like that, that's maybe not a good idea. I don't write a lot of romance novels. No. It could be another person, it can be a dog That'll solve most of your character's problems right there. Getting a dog solved several of my life problems. But, you know, go as go as bold and as weird and as near and as bad and as good as you can go. That's the nice thing about the list is that you don't necessarily have to commit to it immediately. Mm-hmm. Until you found [00:14:00] the way that they can solve the problem that you can't solve. Carrie: Hmm. I love that. Yeah. Because you're immediately giving yourself something with high stakes to write about because it's a problem that you have. Elizabeth: Yeah, I think, I think we should write more self-insert characters. I think they're, they're good for us as a society. I don't think that they're as sort of like selfish or unrelatable as people make them out to be. I think when done well, some of the most human characters that you can create you've, you've given a little bit of your breath to. Carrie: And readers are probably always gonna assume that it's you anyway, right? Elizabeth: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And the, the characters who they've assumed are my self- insert characters are not. So I think that that's fun. Carrie: So do you have any advice specific to people who are writing for teens? Elizabeth: Yeah, I mean my most basic advice if you're writing for [00:15:00] teens is to live a life that is full of teenagers. Get in the classroom and teach. If you've got kids. Listen to them. Don't just like talk with them, but really sit and, and listen to them and watch and try and empathize and process their worldview. Mm-hmm. Without rushing for judgment. I think that a lot of the biggest mistakes that people wouldn't make when they're writing for teens is judgment. And that's something that I've noticed just a lot in everybody, including myself. Especially the, the older that you get and the more that you get out of your teenage years, it's very easy to see a problem that you've already fixed and want to apply the solution that you had to that problem. And it so rarely works for anybody, but somehow we, we seem to think that that will work for teenagers. Mm-hmm. So I would say spend your time around teenagers with an open heart and open ears, and a very quiet mouth. That's my, my biggest advice when it comes to writing for teens. Um-huh And if you don't live a [00:16:00] life where you're able to really, like, send a lot of teenagers I think question why you want to write for them. Mm-hmm. If you're not in a relationship with a group of people, why would you want to write for that group of people? Carrie: Mm-hmm. Elizabeth: So that's my big advice. Carrie: And do you have any final writing tips that you'd like to give to our listeners? Elizabeth: Yeah, I would say read more. Read deeply. I've been reading a lot of, I, I feel like a lot of people when they're, when they're in a really exciting point in their writing, like I, I, I am in a very exciting point in my writing right now Carrie: turn to non-fiction a lot if they're mm-hmm. If they're fantasy Elizabeth: writers. And I am, me deep in a lot of really interesting, I'm reading a lot of bell hooks right now, and it's helping me to really reconceptualize a lot of relationships between my characters. Mm-hmm. I'm really enjoying that. So I would recommend read, read broadly, read all the stuff that's coming out currently in the genre that you're working on. Really keep an eye on, you know, Kirkus Reviews are a great place to find the list sort of [00:17:00] book books that are coming out that are like the thing that you're writing. So I would definitely say read those, but also read widely outside of your genre too. Anything that sparks your fancy. I know that's very basic advice, but I feel like it can't be said enough. I feel like we try to overcomplicate a lot of craft questions that can be answered by reading more. Carrie: Mm-hmm. Elizabeth: Visit your library all the time Carrie: That's right. Elizabeth: Talk to, honestly talk to your librarians. It's one of the best advices that I can, I can give. That's something that I've given to a lot of ya authors before. Mm-hmm. Talk to teen librarians cause they know everything all the time. It is incredible. But yeah. Carrie: That is true. Yes. And I would definitely say that about the J C P L teen librarian, and she is around a lot of teens too, so she could give advice about that too. Elizabeth: Yeah, for sure. Carrie: Well, thank you so much, Elizabeth. This was great. We really appreciate you being here. Elizabeth: Yeah, thank you for having me. This is a blast.